Pac-10 on top!
(Written by kencraw)
Well, with USC’s win over Penn St., the Pac-10 completed their sweep of the bowl games. True, not every game was a thing of beauty and not every opponent was each conference’s best, but the reality is that every conference will have that caveat to their performances.
All of those things aside, the Pac-10 is the only conference that went undefeated this bowl season (although many conferences still have games left, every conference besides the Pac-10 has already lost one).
I’m never going to be the guy who says the Pac-10 is the undeniable best and nobody can compete with us, because the reality is that it is never as simple as that. But what I will always say is that with the possible exception of the SEC, the Pac-10 is the most difficult conference to get through one’s conference schedule unfazed. From top to bottom, every team minus one or two is a team that it is going to take a reasonable effort to beat, even for the best in the conference and the top few are going to take the best’s best effort to beat. Add in that in the Pac-10 we play a full round-robin and as such 2 more conference games than many and 1 more than everyone else, and the Pac-10 is a tough and grueling place to win.
Plus, no where besides the Pac-10 do you see the diversity of offensive and defensive schemes that one sess in the Pac-10. You have to be balanced and flexible on both sides of the ball to win consistently.
All of this is a long way of saying that this bowl season proves once again that the Pac-10 is a very strong conference and our best deserve more recognition than they do for their accomplishments and final rankings.
January 2nd, 2009 at 7:31 pm
Here’s hoping that next year, the conference gets its due in the preseason rankings. With the current system, a mediocre SEC or Big XII team can hang around in the polls for weeks and weeks (even the entire season) simply because they started out ranked high in the preseason. Unfortunately, this rarely happens for a PAC-10 team.
As for the difficulty of getting through an SEC season without a loss, I think that’s overrated. The supposed “strength” of their conference is largely based on records that get inflated by weak OOC schedules. They play one patsy after another prior to conference, then use the fact that they have great records to claim that it’s really tough to play in the SEC. I remain unconvinced.
January 3rd, 2009 at 10:19 am
Another reason it’s tougher to get through the Pac-10 undefeated – the round robin conference schedule. Nobody gets to miss out on USC, or Cal, or Oregon or Oregon State. In conferences like the Big 12 and SEC, teams usually get to skip out on playing at least one of the good teams in the conference. And while every other conference decided to add an extra Sun Belt or I-AA team to the schedule when they went to 12 games, the Pac-10 added a 9th conference game.
I have to admit it annoys me when I see statements like, “But what I will always say is that with the possible exception of the SEC”. It’s like the SEC supporters screamed it so many times people just assume it’s true. But hey, beating teams like Alabama is much tougher for Florida than Pac-10 teams that take on Utah, right?
January 3rd, 2009 at 12:48 pm
The SEC is a great conference. The Big 12 (south) is a great conference. The Pac 10 is a great conference. The Big 10, ACC, Big East, and Mountain West are, on occasion, great conferences.
The moral of this story (with all due respect to your post, Ken) is that the annual conference debate is boring, useless, and stupid. Why can’t the SEC and the Pac 10 both be good? Sometimes the Pac 10 will be really strong, sometimes the SEC will be really strong, and sometimes both will be really strong.
January 3rd, 2009 at 2:10 pm
There is an important issue to the conference vs. conference debate. It has to do with getting in the national championship game. Conferences with a championship game have an advantage.
The conference winner always has an extra win vs. a highly ranked opponent. This really helps in the computer rankings and usually helps in the polls.
Futhermore, because the Pac 10 plays a complete round robin, it’s harder for any team to go undefeated. The third strike against the PAC 10 is the lack of respect from the eastern press.
I suggest the PAC 10 become the PAC 12 by adding Utah and BYU and splitting into North and South divisions. The North would be the Washington, Oregon and Utah schools. The South would have the California and Arizona schools.
This could put the PAC 12 on a level conference playing field with the ACC, SEC and Big 12. Then we would not have futile arguments about the strongest conferences.
It this were in place this year, Utah would not be undefeated, and USC would be in the national championship game.
January 4th, 2009 at 12:30 am
The Pac-10 doesn’t operate like that, though. People propose they take on two new schools for football, but football isn’t the only sport the colleges play. Would they add to the conference for basketball? Utah used to be good, but not as much anymore. BYU? Not really. What about other sports like baseball, water polo, track and field, soccer, etc. It’s not worth talking about changing the nature of the conference.
There is no need for a championship game in a round robin conference schedule. You say conferences like the SEC get an extra quality win when Florida beats Alabama for example, but in the Pac-10 that already happens since every team already plays every other team, whereas Florida did not play Alabama in the regular conference schedule. The real problem is going into the season a team like Auburn is ranked top 10, even though they’re about as good as Stanford, just because they’re SEC and the voters are idiots. If Pac-10 schools were overrated like that every conference win Cal picks up would look good on their final resume.
January 4th, 2009 at 7:47 am
Rick Crawford…great minds think alike. On Oct 29th, I posted this over at Cal Golden Blogs:
http://www.californiagoldenblogs.com/2008/10/29/649181/carp-s-crazy-thoughts-for
I, too, believe the only way the Pac-10 will get I put up polls at every SBN blog in the Pac-10 (all schools except ‘furd and UofA) as well as Utah and Colorado. In my proposal, I picked Utah and Colorado since the Big 12 is all about the Big 12S and Colorado fits better all round than BYU. Many fans felt that BYU and Utah were the schools to pick up. I’ve pasted my Summary post below…
Summary:
If you read the proposal, you know that I posted polls at each of the SBN blog sites. Thanks to all who’ve participated across 10 blogs, voted 410 times, and commented! I thought this would be a great topic to blog about and I was surprised at some of the results. Like everyone, I’m happy the conference has an auto-BCS bid. But I’m frustrated by the fact that the Pac-10 has shown it cannot get two BCS bowl bids (’04 Cal, ’07 ASU). Boo hoo, right? Well, these are big bucks were talking about here. It would be nice to be able to replace the rotten wood bleachers in Memorial (or something to that effect). Moreover, the secondary bowls are terrible. The Holiday Bowl sounds corny, is pre-New Years, and gets the opportunity to play the #3 Big-12 team. And the Pac-10, in an effort to get more bowls, has settled for “meh” bowls rather than quality bowls. My goal behind the expansion was to level the playing field and to improve the Pac-10’s chances of two BCS bowl bids. I’ve posted the voting statistics below from all of the schools participating (% for / % against / total # voters):
Cal (Cal Golden Blogs): 34% / 64% / 49
Bruins Nation: (UCLA): 21% / 78 % / 185
Conquest Chronicles (USC): 23 % / 76 % / 17
ASU (House of Sparky): 47 %/ 52 % / 19
Oregon (ATQ): 22 % / 77 % / 57
Oregon St (Building the Dam): 15 % / 85 % / 40
UW (UW Dawg Pound): 50 % / 50 % / 38
Wazzou (CougCenter): 36 % / 63 % / 11
Utah (Block U): 80 % / 20 % / 30
Colorado (The Ralphie Report): 63 % / 38 % / 18
UofA (no SBN blog): N/A
‘furd (no SBN blog): N/A
=======
Total: 32 % / 68 % / 410
Throw out UCLA’s 185 votes for copying Cal’s fight song, mascot, colors, team name: 41 % / 59 % / 227
I’m kidding with the last one of course…just a little good natured ribbing. BN should be commended for having such a large blogging audience. I’ve listed some of the general comments that were received around the various blogs that participated:
1) Round Robin Scheduling/I hate changing. Wow. I never knew so many people like robins that are round. In my opinion, I don’t think the SEC/Big-12 cares about non-round robin scheduling since they usually compete for a second BCS bowl bid and they can laugh about it all the way to the bank. The round robin gives the clearest champion whereas the proposed schedule could potentially lead to a screwy system although with better football this “screwiness” could be minimal. This was by far the most common reason for opposing expansion. 11 league football games and 22 league hoops games sound like a lot. Would 11 league games + 2-3 OOC games work? If so, does this improve our BCS chances? I don’t think so. I think a lot of people love the overhyped Conference Championhsip – particularly those who vote in the polls that decide our BCS rankings.
2) Colorado wouldn’t want to/Colorado stinks at hoops/BYU and Utah instead. As the votes and comments suggested, Colorado might want to (some fans at least). They almost did in ’94 I think. The balance of power has shifted towards the Big-12S/Southwest Conference teams (just as Osborne said it would in the late ‘90s) and it doesn’t appear as it will shift significantly back. Fans should compare the revenue potential of the new Pac-12 and compare it to the revenue potential of the old Big-12, not compare current Pac-10/Big12. I realize that’s hard to do but somebody must be talented enough at business to do this.
Several fans voted for BYU and Utah instead since they offer better hoops teams and have the “Holy War” rivalry to bring. My poll question asked for Colorado and Utah, so these voting numbers don’t reflect BYU + Utah for the Pac-12 expansion. Note that my proposal protects the Holy War, it just doesn’t make it a league game. L’s still matter. This allows for Colorado and Utah to dust off their old rivalry. If BYU wants to take itself seriously, get an SBN blog and help ‘furd and ‘Zona as well.
3) Colardo/Utah don’t fit academically. Yes they do…they are better than 1/3 to 1/2 of the current universities in the Pac-10. Some Buffs fans were really offended by a blogger posting at academically inferior institutions in the Pac-10. BYU is different: excellent (so they say) undergrad institution, huge endowment $, no research and no grant $. Some have said this does/does not matter.
4) Mountain West teams can’t compete with Pac-10 teams. A Utah blogger actually said this as his team is ranked #7, 2 spots behind USC and 17 spots ahead of the next Pac-10 team. I think this says something about our current ranking system!
5) Don’t conform to The Man, Screw The Man. Totally unexpected this one and it is very Berkeley. A Utah fan said he enjoys being the BCS buster and he thinks the Pac-10 should leave the BCS conference just to see what others would do. Several other fans around the Pac-10 said they’d rather fix/destroy the BCS and adopt the old version or create a playoff system. One Bruins fan had some crazy shuffling throughout the nation that lead to 7 BCS conferences comprised of 10 teams each, playing round robins, and the winners + next highest ranked team would get BCS bowls. “Fixing the current BCS” is the only thing I see coming out of these ideas mentioned as we roll into another bowl year with 3 teams undefeated…
6) I don’t want to road trip to Utah and Colorado/SLC and Denver aren’t big enough cities. Hey, people hate change. Salt Lake and Denver are major airline hubs and I’ve flown to both locales several times. Salt Lake hosted the Winter Olympics this six years ago. Denver just hosted the DNC. Pulman just hos…
7) Pac-10 teams are afraid of being less successful/losing recruits. I’m of the belief that better teams = better football = better glory. Some aren’t.
8) Are you a commish? Buffs fan? Mountain West fan? No, I’m not a commissioner, Buffs fan, nor Mountain West fan. I’m just a scientist (cue Coldplay) who solves problems for a living.
I’d like to thank everyone for participating and for making this an enjoyable experience. Thanks to all of the chief bloggers for letting a Cal fan post at their site, especially House of Sparky and The Ralphie Report for front page presence.
January 4th, 2009 at 10:29 am
Personally I’d like to see the Pac-10 make a football pact with the Mountain West conference that would allow the transfer of football teams betwen the two conferences based on record. Every year the top two MWC football teams (based on conference record) would be promoted to the Pac-10; every year the bottom two Pac-10 football teams (based on conference record) would be relegated to the MWC. So basically, you can play your program into a BCS conference by having a good season. And you can play your program out of the BCS with a bad one.
January 4th, 2009 at 12:03 pm
Answer to Jason —
Your proposal mimics the English ‘football’ leagues. It’s a good idea and keeps every year exciting and competitive. The only down side is the size of the MWC stadia. With the exeception of Utah and BYU, they are too small to hold the USC traveling fans. Can you imagine USC traveling to Wyoming for a conference game?
San Diego State would be great — but first they would have to learn how to win.
January 4th, 2009 at 8:01 pm
Indeed, Rick C., football (soccer) relegation was my inspiration.
I would love to see USC play at Wyoming. That would be a riot.
January 5th, 2009 at 5:00 pm
What needs to be done is the NCAA needs to step in and force conferences like the SEC and Big 12 South to play other BCS conferences, both home and away. Tennessee has done it and look what happened to them. Take a look at LSU’s non-conference games this year. All four games at home and all four were non-BCS schools. Texas Tech played two 1AA schools. If the NCAA wants to keep all the bowls, then they need to make BCS schools play other BCS schools. Florida and Oklahoma play in the BCS championship game and have never played each other before!